Chichester Board of Selectmen
SELECTMEN’S MINUTES
May 6, 2008
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman DeBold, Selectman MacCleery, Selectman Jordan and Administrator Lisa Stevens.
Chairman DeBold opened the meeting at 7:00pm.
SUBJECT: Wild Land Fires – Rules of Procedure & Protocols
PRESENT: Fire Chief Gilbert Vien, State Forest Ranger Doug Miner, Forest Warden Stephen Stock
Members of the public – Mike & Wendy O’Rourke, Ron Luba, John Martell, John Uitts, Alan Mayville, Mike Paveglio, Martha Stock, Walter Sanborn and Robert Lienhart
Chairman DeBold began by stating the purpose of meeting with these three gentlemen was to discuss issues that have been brought up about the workings of the Fire Department and the Forest Wardens. This meeting is not about anyone’s job performance but about Protocol and Rules of Procedure. Chairman DeBold’s expectations are for a civil meeting.
Chairman DeBold asked the Fire Chief to state his concerns.
Chief Vien stated the following –
Medical call one year ago was canceled by Warden Stock. Chairman DeBold stated that issue was discussed and resolved, it is not relevant for tonight’s discussion.
4/18/2008 – outside burn on Main St. – call canceled by the Warden-fire department still in charge of the fire
1/29/2008-outside burn on Horse Corner Rd.-via phone conversation between Captain Cooper and Warden Stock, call was canceled-department was re-toned sixteen minutes later to extinguish the fire
The Chief agreed to issue the Warden a department radio for notification and communication on calls only, not to cancel calls.
Selectman Jordan asked why George Cooper acted as he did on the call on Horse Corner Road. Chief Vien responded, Mr. Cooper was at a burning brush pile, he was under the assumption that the fire was under the Warden’s jurisdiction, and acted on the Warden’s say so. The fire was not out of control but there was material in it that shouldn’t have been. It’s a liability issue for the town.
Chairman DeBold then asked for Warden Stock’s response.
1/29/2008 incident – George Cooper called me with questions regarding the fire, he is a new deputy and is not familiar with all the rules and regulations. The fire was down the street from where George lived, he was on scene when I signed on to respond, George had called fire alarm and relayed the information to dispatch regarding the burn and that he, ‘04’ (Officer Cooper) was on scene. Dispatch repeated the information over the radio and cancelled the engine and continued the Warden and relayed that information to Chief Vien who responded back to dispatch stating, the Warden did not have that authority.
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Warden Stock stated he did not cancel anyone that night, all this can be verified by the dispatch tapes. When he arrived on scene he discussed the items that were burning in the fire with Mr. Cooper- logs and stumps that were larger than allowed-George made the decision to cancel on his own. Mr. Stock wanted to help the owner and get the fire out.
4/18/2008- O’Rourke fire-Mr. Stock submitted a letter for the record and read aloud page one which summarized his actions and events relative to this outside burn. The remaining content of the letter addresses other concerns Gil brought up about Steve. A copy is attached to the permanent record.
Mr. Stock stated that at neither incident did Gil bring up his actions as issues that he had a problem with. Mr. Stock stated he has not acted outside of the scope of his duties and responsibilities, all this can be verified by the dispatch tapes.
Chairman DeBold stated the Board was going to stick with one issue at a time and not address the remaining contents of the letter and asked for Ranger Miners input.
State Ranger, Doug Miner, shared a compilation of applicable State RSA’s that address the concerns broached by Chief Vien that clearly define roles and responsibilities of the Fire Chief and the Forest Warden and liability to the town. The Board was given copies of the job descriptions for Forest Warden and Deputy Wardens as listed in the State Forest Warden’s Manual. Points discussed included;
NH RSA 154 – Firewards, Firefighters and Fire Hazards-Ranger Miner highlighted – 154:2 which clearly states the Fire Chief has jurisdiction over all fires EXCEPT as provided in 227-L
NH RSA 227-L – Woodland Fire Control – Ranger Miner highlighted-227-L: 11 (b)-Duties of Forest Fire Wardens & Deputy Wardens
Mr. Miner stated that NH Division of Forest and Lands clearly recognizes the Warden as Chief Officer under the Incident Command System during all wild land fires. Legally, if a wild land fire occurs, all deputies, including the Fire Chief (RSA 227-L:7-states in the case where the Fire Chief is not also the Warden, he/she must be appointed a Deputy Forest Warden) all deputies, including the Fire Chief, would be under the Warden in the Line of Command. Deputies or agents must act under the direction of the Warden only. The State reviews the experience of appointees by the local Boards of Selectmen prior to approving their appointments. Mr. Stock is well qualified for the position.
Clearly, the Forest Warden has the authority to make a determination at the scene and cancel apparatus response in the case of a controlled burn. There is no liability to the town when acting within the scope of the Warden’s responsibilities. The Warden is indemnified by the State. If he were also a member of the Fire Department, he would have additional indemnification under the Town. However, there is a concern for needless response. Mr. Miner stated, far more firefighters die each year responding to a call than they do fighting fires. The liability is much greater for accidents and injuries to personnel during the response to the call. The Town can establish their own protocol for who is authorized to cancel response to a call and when it may be canceled.
Ranger Miner will defer to the Fire Chief and Town protocol for rolling apparatus but will still require the Warden to notify the dispatch center and pass along the information as to whether or not they can cancel response or continue at the Chief’s discretion. The States protocol on a permitted burn with a fire officer on the scene would be to cancel response to save the threat of injury.
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Resident Mike O’Rourke asked, what’s the sense of getting a permit if apparatus has to roll?
Mr. Stock responded because the dispatch center cannot make that decision sitting at a terminal in an office.
Often times when passer byes call 911they don’t give a specific address, just what the street is.
Next the group discussed the errors appearing on permits being issued by the Deputy Wardens.
Warden Stock outlined the procedure he follows for reporting and recording of permits issued. Permits are issued on the day of the burn, one copy goes to the permitee and one copy stays with the Warden’s files.
Two problems identified were;
lack of communication between the Wardens and the Fire Department – not everyone is aware of the same information
training needed for all Deputies emphasizing the correct way to complete a permit and what the permit encompasses i.e. category of burn, weather conditions
Ranger Miner informed the Board that his department is responsible for predicting what class day it is in terms of the weather conditions and for notification of that information to all the fire departments and fire towers, State wide.
Once again, Doug spoke to the liability concern raised by the Fire Chief and re-iterated that there would be no liability to the town, the Wardens are indemnified under NH RSA 99-D, when acting within the scope of their duties. These positions are all on a voluntary basis and the responsibilities take a lot of time. We should be thanking the volunteers for all the time given. Doug made a recommendation to the Board of Selectmen to add Mr. Stock back as a member of the Fire/Rescue Department to alleviate these types of problems occurring as well as it would offer additional protection of immunity because Steve would be covered under the Town and the State. Doug clarified that Steve has not offered to go back on the department; that was his recommendation.
Selectman Jordan asked, so your department is satisfied with Mr. Stock’s performance? Ranger Miner answered yes, very satisfied, Steve goes to meetings, trainings and has a lot of experience.
The State will honor a permit if it is not always filled out properly, these are young Deputies and the permits were issued in good faith. Ranger Miner offered, as he has in the past, to conduct a training session at the station, on permitting and review of the wild land fire laws and procedures, to the entire Fire Department and the Board of Selectmen, not just the Deputies.
Chairman DeBold asked, so your agency’s stance is the Forest Fire Warden is the Officer in Charge of a wild land fire? Mr. Miner answered yes. Under the Incident Command System, the agency feels it’s important to pass the information along to all involved.
Chairman DeBold stated what I’m hearing is that the Town needs to work on establishing a protocol on how and when to cancel a call. Ranger Miner offered to work with the Chief and the Warden to establish such protocol. Ranger Miner re-iterated it is the agency’s stance that the Forest Warden does have the authority to cancel a call. Doug went on to say he had offered to Gil and Steve last August, to sit down and layout the groundwork for cooperation within the department and now he is a little disheartened that these concerns weren’t brought to Steve first and or me. Gil should be cognizant of the fact that we can sit down and communicate and make our own decisions at the local level.
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Doug then continued by apologizing for the tardiness of the paperwork from his office. The program assistant at his office is extremely behind and that is no reflection on the Warden and the Selectmen’s timely filing of Gil’s re-appointment papers. Doug spoke with Gil on Election Day in March regarding the fact that Gil had yet to receive his ‘card’ from the State. Doug re-assured Gil that he was considered active in the State’s database and could continue to issue burn permits. Gil still has all his authorities in place. The office is behind on the paperwork. Each appointment by the State is signed off personally by the Director. This information was again stated to Chief Vien, by Mr. Miner when he called the State office inquiring about his paperwork.
In regards to Mr. Stock’s appointment form, the term should be a three year one, the paper incorrectly reflects two years. Mr. Stock has agreed to the date as listed, understanding it reflects less than a full term. Mr. Miner will meet with Steve shortly before the term expires for an evaluation and recommendation to the Board for re-appointment. This is standard procedure. The Deputy Warden’s appointments follow the Warden’s term. Mr. Miner forwarded re-appointment papers for Deputies Harris and Hatch to the Selectmen for signatures.
Chairman DeBold asked the Warden if these gentlemen were interested in remaining deputies. Mr. Stock answered yes, Randy Harris is an issuing agent and Frank Hatch is a courtesy, it’s an honorary appointment only. It is fine with the State. Selectman Jordan asked why so many deputies are needed. Mr. Stock responded that last year we ran into a problem on Old Home Day, people wanted a permit, he was working and no other deputy was available. Mr. Stock wants people to have the ability to get a permit to dispose of their brush when they want to. Mr. Miner stated the law allows the Warden the discretion to appoint as many Deputies as he needs to get the job tasks done.
Warden Stock asked the Fire Chief for the details regarding the permit issues the Chief has stated to the Selectmen. Chief Vien listed the problems as; permits not filled out all the way; all categories being checked off; not signed; and one the same day one resident was denied a permit, another resident was issued a permit.
Warden Stock stated he would review the procedures for issuing permits with his Deputies. Ranger Miner stated in the case of the last item, it may be a case of weather change and again encouraged the Wardens and the Fire Department members to take advantage of training. Mr. Miner spoke of his concern that new members on the department won’t know who Steve is. Mr. Miner feels this is a valid reason to re-instate Steve back on the department as Warden only to ensure that all work together as a solid team to handle a fire.
Warden Stock discussed his recollection of the permitted burn for resident Briggs. Mr. Briggs had requested a burn permit which Mr. Stock intended to issue after he got out of work. Mr. Briggs did not wish to wait that long and called Deputy Cole who went and issued the permit. Mr. Stock noticed the fire on his way home and stopped at the residence. No one was home at the time, it was an unattended fire. Mr. Stock called the home later in the evening to explain it was unlawful to have an unattended permit fire and by law the town could charge Mr. Briggs for having to extinguish it. All this information is clearly listed on the permit. Mr. Stock stated he did not give the homeowner a hard time, he just explained the rules. Mr. Briggs stated to him that he did not leave when
the fire was burning; the fire was down to coals.
Regarding the permit issued to Kenneally; all four categories (of types of burn) where marked off. Ordinarily only one category is marked for each permit given. If more than one type of burn was taking place, more than one permit should have been issued. Category four permits are usually issued by the State only, with approval from the local Warden.
Warden Stock discussed the lack of communication he received during the recent attempts by the Fire Department to burn the Shaw Fields.
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Ranger Miner stated the fact that the Fire Chief is appointed as a Deputy Warden gives him the authority to have a controlled burn without a permit; however, he still must run it by the Warden and get the Warden’s approval. A Deputy has no authority unless acting as the Warden’s agent, meaning the Warden must be in agreement of the task.
Warden Stock addressed Mr. Giuda being refused a permit when on the same day the Randall Fields were burned. Deputy Cole felt it too windy on the hill to allow a permit at that location. Mr. Stock stated he has no issue with a Deputy making that decision, it was a judgment call, he would prefer a Deputy err on the side of caution then have to chase a wildfire through the woods all night. Mr. Stock further stated that when the department or the town offices receive any homeowners concerns, they should be instructed to contact the Warden directly.
The town offices have not received any complaints about the Warden or Deputy Warden’s actions or performance. Chairman DeBold stated he did not see this meeting as a question of Steve’s performance and suggested that Gil, Steve and Doug sit down and develop a protocol.
Mr. Stock stated he did not act irrationally but rather as a prudent and reasonable person, he was not here to usurp Gil’s authority, he was concerned with the costs (gas) and injury to personnel.
Chairman DeBold asked for public comment at this time.
Walter Sanborn shared his opinion that only one Deputy should be allowed to issue permits. One doesn’t know what the other Deputy is doing. The less people you have giving permits the better. Also, no burns are allowed within fifty feet of a building, he has seen some that are more like twenty-five feet from the building.
Warden Stock responded by stating he did not want to hear complaints that residents can’t get a permit. He does not feel the number of deputies is excessive.
Mike Paveglio commented that the issuing of permits is an education process more than anything else. This is an outstanding meeting, thanks to whoever set it up. When the issues were originally brought up in a public session, he thought maybe it should have been in non-public session. This is very disheartening, what it boils down to is lack of communication. Mike urged the Selectmen to take the Ranger’s recommendation and have Steve, Gil and Doug sit down and talk and settle these issues. These issues shouldn’t come here to this Board.
Mike O’Rourke echoed his sentiment that he agreed with Mr. Paveglio’s comments, no communication is not good for the town. Wendy O’Rourke read a statement written by her husband Mike outlining the events that took place regarding their permitted burn. Copy attached as part of permanent record.
Selectman Jordan stated he agreed with Mr. Sanborn that there were too many deputies and nobody knows what’s going on.
Ranger Miner responded that the Old Home Day issue was the very reason Gil was authorized as an Issuing Agent. When dispatch receives a complaint for open burning, ninety-nine percent of the time it’s because a person couldn’t get a permit. Steve has a good system. Communication is key; the Deputies must notify the Warden when they issue a permit.
Mr. Stock clarified statements made that he was not reachable. He is always available by phone; he has not been without cell service. He is not interested in getting back on the department, he is enjoying the time off, and Steve is just asking to be kept in the loop. He does not feel he acted inappropriately; he is working above and beyond the call of duty.
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Mr. O’Rourke stated the Chief and the Warden are both doing a great job; they just need to work together.
SUBJECT: Forestry III – repair
PRESENT: Warden Steve Stock, Fire Chief Gil Vien, Ranger Doug Miner, and Deputy Fire Chief John Uitts
The transmission is blown. Chief Vien has priced a used transmission for $1060, not including the freight cost to ship from Pennsylvania. Selectman MacCleery and Selectman Jordan have looked at the truck. Selectman MacCleery feels the truck is worth repairing, but feels the town could save on the cost by taking the transmission out of the truck and bringing it somewhere to be re-manned. Ranger Miner informed the Board of a dealer of military vehicles located in Colchester Vermont. This may be a better source for replacement or repair of the transmission. Also, George Stevens in Deerfield may be able to quote a cost to repair as the Town of Deerfield has two such similar vehicles and the Town of Northwood is interested in the vehicle should the Selectmen decide to sell it instead. Mr.
Miner urged the Board to offer the truck to the towns within the Capital Area Compact instead of selling it at White’s Farm. (State surplus)
Selectman MacCleery offered one other issue with the truck, driver training. Selectman MacCleery stated if you don’t know how to drive it, stay out of it.
Warden Stock stated he has several friends who have repaired numerous M35’s, which this military truck is. He will ask them to take a look at it. Mr. Stock prefers to investigate the cost to repair first rather than get rid of the truck.
The Board of Selectmen agreed to check out the repair costs. The Board directed the Chief and the Warden to submit figures prior to authorizing the expense to fix. There is no money in the budget for a major repair.
Chief Vien informed the Board that the portable generator on Engine 3 is giving them trouble. The 4,000 watt generator is eighteen years old and according to vendor Alstart, is not worth repairing, they quoted $800 to fix, to replace it would be $3,595. This generator is needed to run any fans or lights during an incident. Chief Vien has priced a 5260 watt pull start generator at Sam’s Club for $599. The Selectman approved the expense providing there was money in the budget for such an expense.
Chairman DeBold stated his appreciation for the Chief coming to the Board with this large purchase request.
SUBJECT: Furnace at the safety building
PRESENT: Chief Vien and Deputy Chief Uitts
There has not been heat in the main part of the building since January. The roof top unit has failed. The heat exchanger in the furnace is gone and according to estimates solicited, is not worth repairing. Quotes have been solicited for not only the repair work but for an alternative heating solution as well. The Chiefs do not agree with installing another rooftop unit. Rhymes submitted a bid of 4,800 which was strictly the furnace replacement cost, no installation price was quoted. The Chief has just received a quote from Demaris for $5,400 installed. The Board recommended the department check back with Rhymes and ask for a complete quote and a quote for an alternative heating solution.
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GENERAL BUSINESS/BOARD DISCUSSION:
The Board reviewed a request received from Barloe Homes for refund of two impact fees collected at the issuance of the building permits. Lisa was directed to research the timing of the payments and the changing of the RSA, prior to a decision being rendered.
The Board received the documentation of residency requested from Paul & Kathryn Dandurand. Motion Selectman MacCleery and second by Chairman DeBold to grant a waiver from the impact fee requirement on the Dandurand’s dwelling conversion project, map 2, lot 39-1. All were in favor. Motion carries.
The Board signed the first issue tax levy in the amount of $2,762,279.
The Board discussed the tone of the zoning letter for the Drew complaint and decided a revision was necessary. The Board requested Lisa to notify them when redrafted and they will come by the office and sign individually. Selectman Jordan will deliver the letter to Mr. Drew.
The minutes of April 29, 2008, were approved as written.
Mail and correspondence were reviewed. Accounts payable and payroll were signed.
Motion Selectman MacCleery, second Selectman Jordan to adjourn the meeting at 10:06pm. All were in favor. Motion carries.
Respectfully submitted,
Lisa Stevens
Administrator
Approved AS Written
5/13/2008
______________________ _______________________ _______________________
Richard DeBold, Chairman Stephen MacCleery Jeffrey Jordan
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